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Talk:Simon Soundman
Sounds That Remind Me of You I was watching the "Sounds That Remind Me of You" clip today, and I thought the music and melody sounded similar to "Real Live Girl". Anybody else feel we should note that similarity? --Minor muppetz 00:11, April 9, 2012 (UTC) name I don't see that we've discussed this character's name anywhere and it's never been moved. It looks like we just started it and left it as is. Right now, as Simon Soundman, it appears as though we're saying his surname is Soundman. The 1979 style guide lists his name as Simon the Sound Man. It looks like Danny added his name listed from The New Who's Who on Sesame Street as Simon the Soundman. I propose a move leaning toward the style guide as the more official source. —Scott (talk) 03:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :I think the other source for "Simon Soundman" is the record albums -- he's listed on Ernie's Hits and What Time Is It on Sesame Street? with that name. There may be others too; that was just the first thing I thought of. -- Danny (talk) 04:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC) ::Sesamestreet.org's video tags also list him as Simon Soundman (though as we've seen, that's not always definitive), Sesame Street Unpaved calls him that, and I'm pretty sure one or more CTW documents also refers to him as such. So personally, I'd say leave as is, but include the variant as a trivia note. My guess is they probably used both, depending on whatever the person preparing that specific credit list or document or summary wanted to use, but Simon Soundman is definitely well sourced. Now, if we ever come across a sketch where he's specifically addressed one way or the other (in most, he's not addressed at all), then I'd favor a move, but right now, there's as much or more evidence for Simon Soundman than for a "the" (as opposed to, say Lefty the Salesman, a clear fan composite which I keep meaning to bring up, of the official CTW and book and merchandise name "The Salesman" and of Lefty, as used in three sketches). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :::It also looks like he was called Simon Sound Man on the Talk 'n Play sets -- for example, Lovable, Furry Old Grover in Please Don't Push the Red Button. So, obviously, lots of possible variations -- and since he was never really a major character, it's not surprising that they don't seem to have settled on one. :::Of all of the different sources, the albums seem to me to be the most credible... I agree with Andrew; keep the page here and note the other variations. -- Danny (talk) 07:06, 21 October 2008 (UTC) ::::Okay, cool. I didn't realize the other variations were so well sourced. I'll start a list to track the changes similar to what we've done for the arbor and Grundgetta. —Scott (talk) 16:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :::::Can someone who owns Ernie's Hits and What Time Is It on Sesame Street? check the back to see what they call him? I wonder if our articles for those are just matching the spelling we used for Simon's article. —Scott (talk) 16:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC) ::::::He was definitely listed as Simon Soundman on What Time. On Ernie's Hits, though, while I don't have that specific album, some checking suggests he wasn't listed at all there; there are a few albums (mostly the "Hits" ones and others primarily using tracks from earlier albums) where the same cast list appears each time, incorrectly listing characters and performers who aren't even on the album (the early history shows that list was transcribed by User:Scotty J. from the album, but other users later corrected it). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :::::::I'll ask Ken about the albums -- he'll know. :) -- Danny (talk) 18:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC) ::::::::I added a few more sources. I checked the familiarity study document Danny scanned from the archives. It refers to him as "Simon" and then "Simon the Soundman," *but* it also lists "Hairy" (for Herry Monster) and "Herbert Burnsfoot," so I'm not sure it really counts for much. Looking at it, it seems like a CTW research assistant prepared the report, and either they weren't too sure about the names themselves or they simply used what the kids wrote down. Right now, in all honesty, the best sources to support a move would be something that specifically refers to him by name outside of a cast list or chart (i.e. a name mention in a storybook, as opposed to a coloring book, or in a sketch). Otherwise, it does seem all over the place, in which case we might as well keep as is. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :::::::::I agree. It doesn't appear as though his name was used in any sketches that we know of. But now I'm fascinated with all the variations listed below :) —Scott (talk) 19:06, 21 October 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::Oooh, I found a nifty new lead. A May 28, 1993 newspaper listing (from newspaperarchive.com) describes an episode in which "Simon the Soundman tries to sell Gina some sounds." I'm not sure the summary from a random Ohio paper proves much, *but* it sounds like a street storyline and, in that context and given how comparatively late in the day the appearance is, it seems reasonably likely that he either introduces himself or Gina addresses him by name. Hopefully Guillermo or someone has a copy of the episode, but if not, it's recent enough that it may still surface. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC) ::::::::He appears in Episode 2608, which Guille has. Perhaps he's referred to by his full name there? -- MuppetDude 19:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC) The problem with this kind of thing is that we care more about consistency than CTW/Sesame Workshop ever did. We want to know what the "official" name for the character is, but there probably isn't one. He was probably written one way in a script, and another way in a production document, and it didn't make enough of a difference to make sure it was "correct" -- especially because (as far as I know), he never says his name on screen. The listing that Andrew describes above is from 1993 -- twenty years after his first appearance in episode 0406. In that time, there were a bunch of different writers and producers, and I'm sure nobody sat down and had a meeting about whether this minor character was named Simon Soundman or Simon the Sound Man. They went by memory, or what sounded right at the moment. "Cookie Monster" vs "The Cookie Monster" makes a difference; "Mr. Johnson" vs "Fat Blue" doesn't. So it's cool for us to dig, and make lists; it's what we do. We just shouldn't assume that any piece of information is going to match up with any other, or that what he was called in 1973 is the same as what he was called in 1993. -- Danny (talk) 19:31, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :Yeah, that's why I was unsure about page moves earlier. But as you said, that shouldn't stop us from digging. :) In general, it seems like the "Simon" is the most consistent part and probably the only aspect folks bothered with. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :::Does anybody know whetehr he was referred to by name in the Sesame Street News Flash segment where he reported on the weather? --Minor muppetz 01:29, 22 October 2008 (UTC) ::::It looks like Guillermo added the screenshot. Maybe he knows? —Scott (talk) 02:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC) :::::Okay, just for the record (sorry), Simon's name isn't on Ernie's Hits. The Man Who Needs Help just says "Ernie and Man". I just put Simon Soundman because that's what his page was named. And he's not credited on the bottom with Jerry's other characters, either. On What Time Is It, it says Simon Soundman in the track listing, and in Jerry's characters. I don't have Ernie and Bert Side by Side. Maybe somebody else does. Hope this helps! -- Ken (talk) 06:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC) ::::::Thanks for checking, Ken! I have E&B:SxS and it's credited as "Simon the Soundman" as noted below. —Scott (talk) 06:32, 22 October 2008 (UTC) :What does "Anything Muppet" mean, ( it's in the article)?. Fat Blue has been filled in their.??? --Muppetstudios 10:40, 22 October 2008 (UTC) ::Check it out: Anything Muppets. "Fat Blue" is the type of pattern used for Simon and others. -- MuppetDude 13:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC) ::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsKjDzmwsTY&feature=channel. That clip was just uploaded yesterday, and he introduces himself in it. Garrettk41 20:02, 28 June 2009 (UTC) ::::Ooh, what a great find! That's definitive evidence at last. -- Danny (talk) 20:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC) :::::Let's not forget to add that clip to the page of Simon's sketches. Garrettk41 17:43, October 12, 2009 (UTC) name variations * Simon Soundman - What Time Is It on Sesame Street? album, Sesame Street Unpaved page 135, interview with Mr. Johnson found on back cover of the Old School: Volume 2 booklet * Simon Sound Man - 2 Talk 'n Play books * Simon the Sound Man - CTW's official character guide, Sesame Jamboree program * Simon the Soundman - The New Who's Who on Sesame Street coloring book, Bert and Ernie: Side by Side album, CTW Muppet familiarity study (heading), Sesame Street: A Celebration - 40 Years of Life on the Street page 104, episode 2746 * Simon - CTW Muppet familiarity study (chart), "Simon's Song" (registered title) Song What about the song he sings to his beloved at Charlie's at night?Dshibshm 04:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC) Its "All those remind me of you".Dshibshm 22:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)